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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 1:35 am
Post subject: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to dlexik Reply with quote





I have been trying to find out for some time what the official origin
is behind the Weeping Buddha icon which I half expected was a creation
of the asian wood carving souvenir industry. But there seems to be
several stories behind this from what I can find on the net and other
threads.

Below is a list of stories that could be the origins of the mysterious
figure sometimes depicted kneeling sometimes depicted with legs out.
Some sites reffer to the "Shy Buddha" or "Yogi" when describing the
figure.


If anyone has any idea what the true origins are for this depiction of
the Buddha (if it is really a Buddha), I would appreciate it.

-- d



---------Weeping Buddha icon:

Kneeling:
www.bighappybuddh....si.html

Legs out:
info.product-find....ha.html



---------EXPLANATION 1 -------------------

From: www.mccfl..../faculty/Jo....bet.ppt
"
While he was still a young man, the warrior Buddha left his young son
to go and fight wars far over the oceans. When he returned to the
Indonesian Islands many years later, in a ferocious battle he came
across an adversary wearing a mask. In this particular battle and in
many following battles these two warriors fought, neither being able
to slay the other. Then in one great battle the warrior Buddha
defeated the masked warrior and when he removed the mask he recognized
the face of his son. Upon this realization he started weeping and
renounced violence, hatred and all other principles that he had stood
for and started to travel around the helping the young, the sick, the
aged and anyone else whom perhaps needed his help. Thus he was now
called the Weeping Buddha. He is weeping for the sins of the world and
if you rub his muscular back he is meant to absorb all the pain and
anguish that you might be feeling.
"


---------EXPLANATION 2 -------------------



Subject: Re: The weeping Buddha (or lama)?
Date: 1998/11/26
"
One day a famous lama asked of a monk whether he had any news of a
certain
mutual acquaintance. The monk answered "Oh, yes, he is doing great
work. He
has built stupas, printed Dharma books and built monastaries!" The
lama
replied, "Oh, that's good, but isn't it so much better to practice
genuine
Dharma?" On another occasion, he asked about another aquaintance and
was
told that this man was teaching the Dharma to many disciples. Again
he
replied, ""Oh, that's good, but isn't it so much better to practice
genuine
Dharma?" Finally, he asked about another lama and was told, "Ah, him.
He
sits around, puts his robe over his head and cries all the time. The
lama
replied "Oh, he's practicing genuine dharma."
"



---------EXPLANATION 3 -------------------

Subject: Re: Weeping Buddha?
Date: 1999/12/xx

"
The figure represents a human being upon recognizing the depth of his
(could
also be her) own fallibility. It is an icon of individual suffering
due to
recognition of the enormity of suffering, inner and outer. It depicts
a state
of awareness similar to the Jewish ritual of sackcloth and ashes,
although the
iconography is a bit different.
"

"
I have seen one Chinese clay figure of a ordinary disciple of the
Buddha. Part of the series for the scene depicting the Parinirvana of
the Buddha. The monk was crying becoz he was sad for the loss of his
Teacher. The Arhats didn't cry as they have already gone beyond the
stage of sorrow.
"



---------EXPLANATION 4 -------------------


Thread:
Subject: Tsu T'ang Chi (013)
Date: 1999/05/06
"
In the middle era, there were 1000 Buddhas. The first is Kakushanda
Buddha, the last is Rucika Tathagata (3). They are Buddhas of Wise
aeon era.
(3) Rucika Tathagata : TTTNL suggests two translation : Buddha of love
and happiness or Weeping Buddha.
"





Weeping Buddha Story Real
Sponsored Link












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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 7:05 am
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to Tad Perry Reply with quote



It is one of the paths to Enlightenment to realize the fallacy of violence
in such a way. The icon therefore represents this path a Buddha might take.
Now meditate upon the symbols in the story. (Focus upon father and son and
the natural relationship.) This will give you some feel for what the Buddha
felt. However, he felt it viscerally and first hand, and you must use your
imagination. A good use of imagination, however, might well tap the
emotional experience completely.

tvp

"dlexik" <dlexik@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c645c9f4.0409012235.10703949@posting.google.com...

Quote:
I have been trying to find out for some time what the official origin
is behind the Weeping Buddha icon which I half expected was a creation
of the asian wood carving souvenir industry. But there seems to be
several stories behind this from what I can find on the net and other
threads.

Below is a list of stories that could be the origins of the mysterious
figure sometimes depicted kneeling sometimes depicted with legs out.
Some sites reffer to the "Shy Buddha" or "Yogi" when describing the
figure.


If anyone has any idea what the true origins are for this depiction of
the Buddha (if it is really a Buddha), I would appreciate it.

-- d



---------Weeping Buddha icon:

Kneeling:
www.bighappybuddh....si.html

Legs out:
info.product-find....ha.html



---------EXPLANATION 1 -------------------

From: www.mccfl..../faculty/Jo....bet.ppt
"
While he was still a young man, the warrior Buddha left his young son
to go and fight wars far over the oceans. When he returned to the
Indonesian Islands many years later, in a ferocious battle he came
across an adversary wearing a mask. In this particular battle and in
many following battles these two warriors fought, neither being able
to slay the other. Then in one great battle the warrior Buddha
defeated the masked warrior and when he removed the mask he recognized
the face of his son. Upon this realization he started weeping and
renounced violence, hatred and all other principles that he had stood
for and started to travel around the helping the young, the sick, the
aged and anyone else whom perhaps needed his help. Thus he was now
called the Weeping Buddha. He is weeping for the sins of the world and
if you rub his muscular back he is meant to absorb all the pain and
anguish that you might be feeling.
"


---------EXPLANATION 2 -------------------



Subject: Re: The weeping Buddha (or lama)?
Date: 1998/11/26
"
One day a famous lama asked of a monk whether he had any news of a
certain
mutual acquaintance. The monk answered "Oh, yes, he is doing great
work. He
has built stupas, printed Dharma books and built monastaries!" The
lama
replied, "Oh, that's good, but isn't it so much better to practice
genuine
Dharma?" On another occasion, he asked about another aquaintance and
was
told that this man was teaching the Dharma to many disciples. Again
he
replied, ""Oh, that's good, but isn't it so much better to practice
genuine
Dharma?" Finally, he asked about another lama and was told, "Ah, him.
He
sits around, puts his robe over his head and cries all the time. The
lama
replied "Oh, he's practicing genuine dharma."
"



---------EXPLANATION 3 -------------------

Subject: Re: Weeping Buddha?
Date: 1999/12/xx

"
The figure represents a human being upon recognizing the depth of his
(could
also be her) own fallibility. It is an icon of individual suffering
due to
recognition of the enormity of suffering, inner and outer. It depicts
a state
of awareness similar to the Jewish ritual of sackcloth and ashes,
although the
iconography is a bit different.
"

"
I have seen one Chinese clay figure of a ordinary disciple of the
Buddha. Part of the series for the scene depicting the Parinirvana of
the Buddha. The monk was crying becoz he was sad for the loss of his
Teacher. The Arhats didn't cry as they have already gone beyond the
stage of sorrow.
"



---------EXPLANATION 4 -------------------


Thread:
Subject: Tsu T'ang Chi (013)
Date: 1999/05/06
"
In the middle era, there were 1000 Buddhas. The first is Kakushanda
Buddha, the last is Rucika Tathagata (3). They are Buddhas of Wise
aeon era.
(3) Rucika Tathagata : TTTNL suggests two translation : Buddha of love
and happiness or Weeping Buddha.
"












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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 9:52 am
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to Son of man Reply with quote



"Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0v6dnVupJ9oZkarcRVn-jw@comcast.com...

Quote:
It is one of the paths to Enlightenment to realize the fallacy of violence
in such a way. The icon therefore represents this path a Buddha might
take.
Now meditate upon the symbols in the story. (Focus upon father and son and
the natural relationship.) This will give you some feel for what the
Buddha
felt.


The Buddha often made reference to many of his discples as his sons, e.g.
Sariputta in MN 111. Also in MN 92 Ananda thinks of himself as the Blessed
One's son. The Buddha did indeed have the relationship of a father to his
disciples. It was his advice that anyone who had possessed unwavering faith
in him could declare "I am the Blessed One's son, born from his mouth, etc."



Quote:
However, he felt it viscerally and first hand, and you must use your
imagination. A good use of imagination, however, might well tap the
emotional experience completely.

tvp

"dlexik" <dlexik@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c645c9f4.0409012235.10703949@posting.google.com...
I have been trying to find out for some time what the official origin
is behind the Weeping Buddha icon which I half expected was a creation
of the asian wood carving souvenir industry. But there seems to be
several stories behind this from what I can find on the net and other
threads.

Below is a list of stories that could be the origins of the mysterious
figure sometimes depicted kneeling sometimes depicted with legs out.
Some sites reffer to the "Shy Buddha" or "Yogi" when describing the
figure.


If anyone has any idea what the true origins are for this depiction of
the Buddha (if it is really a Buddha), I would appreciate it.

-- d



---------Weeping Buddha icon:

Kneeling:
www.bighappybuddh....si.html

Legs out:
info.product-find....ha.html



---------EXPLANATION 1 -------------------

From: www.mccfl..../faculty/Jo....bet.ppt
"
While he was still a young man, the warrior Buddha left his young son
to go and fight wars far over the oceans. When he returned to the
Indonesian Islands many years later, in a ferocious battle he came
across an adversary wearing a mask. In this particular battle and in
many following battles these two warriors fought, neither being able
to slay the other. Then in one great battle the warrior Buddha
defeated the masked warrior and when he removed the mask he recognized
the face of his son. Upon this realization he started weeping and
renounced violence, hatred and all other principles that he had stood
for and started to travel around the helping the young, the sick, the
aged and anyone else whom perhaps needed his help. Thus he was now
called the Weeping Buddha. He is weeping for the sins of the world and
if you rub his muscular back he is meant to absorb all the pain and
anguish that you might be feeling.
"


---------EXPLANATION 2 -------------------



Subject: Re: The weeping Buddha (or lama)?
Date: 1998/11/26
"
One day a famous lama asked of a monk whether he had any news of a
certain
mutual acquaintance. The monk answered "Oh, yes, he is doing great
work. He
has built stupas, printed Dharma books and built monastaries!" The
lama
replied, "Oh, that's good, but isn't it so much better to practice
genuine
Dharma?" On another occasion, he asked about another aquaintance and
was
told that this man was teaching the Dharma to many disciples. Again
he
replied, ""Oh, that's good, but isn't it so much better to practice
genuine
Dharma?" Finally, he asked about another lama and was told, "Ah, him.
He
sits around, puts his robe over his head and cries all the time. The
lama
replied "Oh, he's practicing genuine dharma."
"



---------EXPLANATION 3 -------------------

Subject: Re: Weeping Buddha?
Date: 1999/12/xx

"
The figure represents a human being upon recognizing the depth of his
(could
also be her) own fallibility. It is an icon of individual suffering
due to
recognition of the enormity of suffering, inner and outer. It depicts
a state
of awareness similar to the Jewish ritual of sackcloth and ashes,
although the
iconography is a bit different.
"

"
I have seen one Chinese clay figure of a ordinary disciple of the
Buddha. Part of the series for the scene depicting the Parinirvana of
the Buddha. The monk was crying becoz he was sad for the loss of his
Teacher. The Arhats didn't cry as they have already gone beyond the
stage of sorrow.
"



---------EXPLANATION 4 -------------------


Thread:
Subject: Tsu T'ang Chi (013)
Date: 1999/05/06
"
In the middle era, there were 1000 Buddhas. The first is Kakushanda
Buddha, the last is Rucika Tathagata (3). They are Buddhas of Wise
aeon era.
(3) Rucika Tathagata : TTTNL suggests two translation : Buddha of love
and happiness or Weeping Buddha.
"













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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 9:54 am
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to Eggplant on Toast Reply with quote



/*-9 wrote:


Quote:
"Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0v6dnVupJ9oZkarcRVn-jw@comcast.com...

It is one of the paths to Enlightenment to realize the fallacy of violence


maharishi valmiki was a well known
sage who wrote the ramayana

valmiki also did a lot of murdering
and kept a small pebble for each murder
he committed

when he dies he had seven large
vessels filled to the brim with small
pebbles each representing one of
his murders.

the paths to enlightenment also may
include killing 100,000 of your neighbors



Who does "a lot of murdering"?

-So, what did you do today?

-Oh me? I did some murdering. You know, a little here, a little there.
Good day for murdering it was. Nice and sunny.

Gotta love your work.

B












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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 9:57 am
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to /*-9 Reply with quote



"Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0v6dnVupJ9oZkarcRVn-jw@comcast.com...

Quote:
It is one of the paths to Enlightenment to realize the fallacy of violence


maharishi valmiki was a well known
sage who wrote the ramayana

valmiki also did a lot of murdering
and kept a small pebble for each murder
he committed

when he dies he had seven large
vessels filled to the brim with small
pebbles each representing one of
his murders.

the paths to enlightenment also may
include killing 100,000 of your neighbors












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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to Trinlay Khadro Reply with quote



dlexik@hotmail.com (dlexik) wrote in message news:<c645c9f4.0409012235.10703949@posting.google.com>...

Quote:
I have been trying to find out for some time what the official origin
is behind the Weeping Buddha icon which I half expected was a creation
of the asian wood carving souvenir industry.



The only version of this 'buddha' I've EVER seen are the Indonesian
carvings, and it started showing up in their iconography about... oh..
5-10 years ago.
I have never come across any kind of story that is part of the
usual Buddhist folklore, parabels, etc. It doesn't fit the "normal"
Buddhist iconography at all. I suspect the carving was, perhaps,
originally a representation of a yogi or as an anatomical study by the
carvers, and the title of "weeping Buddha" got slapped on them for
marketing purposes after the carvings started being sold outside of
Indonesia...and the stories have appeared even more recently.
The story of Buddha on the Battlefield is totally new, and is not
any part of the standard Buddhist texts. (Buddha left home with his
son still very young, and so to suddenly recognize him in adulthood is
hardly likely... secondly, according to history, Buddha's wife,
kinswomen, AND HIS SON, joined the Sangha as well... therefore no
chance of the battlefield encounter.)
None of the other "stories" fit the history or iconography
either.

The one's I have seen certainly ARE very fine art...and certainly can
and should be appreciated as such.












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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 3:18 pm
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to Tad Perry Reply with quote



"/*-9" <mashudichu@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:2poq7oFnh8ldU1@uni-berlin.de...

Quote:

"Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0v6dnVupJ9oZkarcRVn-jw@comcast.com...
It is one of the paths to Enlightenment to realize the fallacy of
violence

maharishi valmiki was a well known
sage who wrote the ramayana

valmiki also did a lot of murdering
and kept a small pebble for each murder
he committed

when he dies he had seven large
vessels filled to the brim with small
pebbles each representing one of
his murders.

the paths to enlightenment also may
include killing 100,000 of your neighbors


Oddly enough this is true. Fortunately, AFTER enlightenment the killing
would stop.

tvp


Quote:













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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to Tad Perry Reply with quote



"Trinlay Khadro" <trin1066@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:52012499.0409020813.503a6198@posting.google.com...

Quote:
dlexik@hotmail.com (dlexik) wrote in message
news:<c645c9f4.0409012235.10703949@posting.google.com>...
I have been trying to find out for some time what the official origin
is behind the Weeping Buddha icon which I half expected was a creation
of the asian wood carving souvenir industry.


The only version of this 'buddha' I've EVER seen are the Indonesian
carvings, and it started showing up in their iconography about... oh..
5-10 years ago.
I have never come across any kind of story that is part of the
usual Buddhist folklore, parabels, etc. It doesn't fit the "normal"
Buddhist iconography at all. I suspect the carving was, perhaps,
originally a representation of a yogi or as an anatomical study by the
carvers, and the title of "weeping Buddha" got slapped on them for
marketing purposes after the carvings started being sold outside of
Indonesia...and the stories have appeared even more recently.
The story of Buddha on the Battlefield is totally new, and is not
any part of the standard Buddhist texts.


It is not Gotama that was a warrior and killed his son. It is the Buddha
represented by the icon who did this. It is not traditional Buddhist
folklore, but it is highly illustrative. Assuming this story is real, it
probably does represent a real Buddha who existed sometime in the past in
Indonesia.

tvp



Quote:
(Buddha left home with his
son still very young, and so to suddenly recognize him in adulthood is
hardly likely... secondly, according to history, Buddha's wife,
kinswomen, AND HIS SON, joined the Sangha as well... therefore no
chance of the battlefield encounter.)
None of the other "stories" fit the history or iconography
either.

The one's I have seen certainly ARE very fine art...and certainly can
and should be appreciated as such.












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Post Link Posted: Thu Sep 02 2004 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to /*-9 Reply with quote



"Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:U5WdnZ3aRLqDHarcRVn-gQ@comcast.com...

Quote:
"/*-9" <mashudichu@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:2poq7oFnh8ldU1@uni-berlin.de...

"Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0v6dnVupJ9oZkarcRVn-jw@comcast.com...
It is one of the paths to Enlightenment to realize the fallacy of
violence

maharishi valmiki was a well known
sage who wrote the ramayana

valmiki also did a lot of murdering
and kept a small pebble for each murder
he committed

when he dies he had seven large
vessels filled to the brim with small
pebbles each representing one of
his murders.

the paths to enlightenment also may
include killing 100,000 of your neighbors

Oddly enough this is true. Fortunately, AFTER enlightenment the killing
would stop.


i'm up to 76,874 neighbors.
got a ways to go yet.












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Post Link Posted: Sat Sep 04 2004 6:47 pm
Post subject: Re: The Real Weeping Buddha Story ?
Reply to Trinlay Khadro Reply with quote



"Tad Perry" <tadperry@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<_fOdnWtBWoV_HKrcRVn-sA@comcast.com>...

Quote:
"> It is not Gotama that was a warrior and killed his son. It is the Buddha
represented by the icon who did this. It is not traditional Buddhist
folklore, but it is highly illustrative. Assuming this story is real, it
probably does represent a real Buddha who existed sometime in the past in
Indonesia.

tvp


Unfortunately, as nice as the story does, the carvings don't even
appear in a traditional Indonesian Buddhist context before the
catalogs in the past dozen or so years... Iconography in this sort of
context usually develops over a long period of time, and as nice as
the story is, it doesn't seem to have any life prior to the recent
appearance of the statues...
The statues even seem to predate the story. (We had this
question come up before elsewhere, and several hours of library and
internet searches came up with this conclusion. Your Mileage May
Vary...)
If you can find a reliable resource that you can site
(something published before we started seeing the statues in new age
shops and catalogs) please let me know!












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